office debate

Picture 3
One of my buddies at work today, wandered into my office and was looking through the books in my bookshelf. Along with my finance-aimed books I have some C.S. Lewis, John Piper, and more. He picked up a John Piper book and said, "you know this guy is all calvinistic" with kind of a disgusted tone. I said, "yeah I know, that's one of the reasons I like him". 

We went on discussing some of the differences between Calvinism and Arminism. He was arguing the point that God "chooses" or doesn't "choose". I challenged him saying, "If you can find one place in the Bible where it says that we "choose" then I'll change my opinion. Then we watched a video that Mark Driscoll did on "Free Will". I ended up loaning him my book, "The Pleasures of God" by John Piper and we'll see what kind of discussions that will dredge up!

I immediately called my Sovereigntist friend, Daniel Temple, and we laughed about how much we love arguing theological points of view. 
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3 comments

  1. Aaahhh…the ever controversial T.U.L.I.P.
    It’s hard to say if you believe God is soveriegn then he has to be sovereign over salvation too, otherwise, he’s not sovereign. Nic has gone ’round and ’round with his brother over this who is an Arminianist. It’s been fun. Especially because their idea of ‘talking’ is to get in each other’s faces and yell. Loudly.
    *sigh*

  2. Hebrews 6:4-6
    4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
    The thing I would like to point out is the word IF.
    There are verses to support both, if there weren’t then there wouldn’t be a debate.
    I believe God is sovereign, and that He gives us free will in His sovereignty. I think the answer between the two isn’t so much Calvin’s teachings or that of Arminius. I think Rob Bell phrased it well when he said in his video Everything Is Spiritual: “The answer to the discussion of Calvinism and Arminius is, yep.”

  3. Ugh…
    I think the worst part about this is “and we laughed about how much we love arguing theological points of view.”
    The problem with both sides is the desire to argue and strive over it ALL the time. Doesn’t the bible say something against arguing over “doubtful matters?” I worked with a guy who spent a lot of energy defending his Calvinist faith. In the end, no one in our office felt really drawn to the sovereign grace of God… they felt repelled by his attitude!
    Anyway, I’m with Dulous: “yep!”

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